Re: The last Thinkpad to have

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Re: The last Thinkpad to have

Connor Behan
On 17/08/14 06:01 AM, Carl-Daniel wrote:

>
> Am 09.08.2014 22:13 schrieb D. Hugh Redelmeier:
>> | From: Martin N <[hidden email]>
>>
>> | I think it would be a good idea to compile in this thread to state what the
>> | last Thinkpad to have a certain feature.
>>
>> At IETF last month, Linus Nordberg (of TOR) was using an x60 with coreboot
>> firmware replacement to decrease the chance that his system has been
>> compromised (by firmware or motherboard producer).
>> <http://www.coreboot.org/Board:lenovo/x60/Installation>
>> (He also makes hardware mods, like removing the radios and some
>> ports.)
> The T60 and T60p are supported by coreboot as well.
>
> Some of the later Intel-based Thinkpad models (x200,x201,x230) have
> coreboot support, but they have an auxiliary processor (called
> Management Engine, ME) with remote management capability which can't be
> disabled and that ME runs unknown closed-source code even if coreboot is
> installed.
>
> So if you're paranoid, the only Intel-based Thinkpad you can trust is a
> T60/T60p/x60. AMD does not have a ME, but AFAIK no coreboot support for
> an AMD-based Thinkpad exists.
>
>
>> At first he thought that he could do the same thing with my x61t but
>> then he decided it was more hairy.
>>
>> My x61t has vPRO, whatever that actually means.
> The *61 series has a chipset not supported by coreboot, so although you
> might be able to mod the hardware against some attacks, the firmware is
> not trustable.
>
>> So: maybe the x60 generation is the last safe-ish one.
> Yes. For now, at least.
Thanks for bringing this up. I just made an article
(http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Old_ThinkPad_Niches) in case Wiki users
are looking for this information.


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Re: The last Thinkpad to have

Stefan Monnier
> Thanks for bringing this up. I just made an article
> (http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Old_ThinkPad_Niches) in case Wiki users
> are looking for this information.

Thanks.  I'd also be interested in "the last 16:10" thinkpads (since it
seems all new ones have moved to 16:9).


        Stefan

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Re: The last Thinkpad to have

Richard Neill-4
On 01.09.2014 23:27, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> Thanks for bringing this up. I just made an article
>> (http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Old_ThinkPad_Niches) in case Wiki users
>> are looking for this information.
>
> Thanks.  I'd also be interested in "the last 16:10" thinkpads (since it
> seems all new ones have moved to 16:9).
>

This is indeed a useful resource. Another question would be "last
thinkpad to have a trackpoint with real buttons"
(as opposed to the clickpad in the X1 carbon Gen2).

Incidentally, much though I hate the trend towards ever shorter screens,
it is at least becoming less bad than it was.
Firstly, we are at least getting high-res screens now, so the shortage
of vertical pixels is a little less severe. Also,
some interfaces are adapting a little (eg auto-hiding panel, widgets
such as "maximus"), and applications have toolbars on the left and
right.
Nevertheless, the 12" screen on an X60 is still bigger than the 14.1 on
an X1 Carbon!

Given how many of our ideal features seem to be becoming endangered...
and looking at the success of the Novena,
maybe it's time to start a kickstarter and develop our own...


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Re: The last Thinkpad to have

Martin N-2
In reply to this post by Connor Behan
Hello,

At 23:11 01/09/2014, you wrote:

>On 17/08/14 06:01 AM, Carl-Daniel wrote:
> >
> > Am 09.08.2014 22:13 schrieb D. Hugh Redelmeier:
> >> | From: Martin N <[hidden email]>
> >>
> >> | I think it would be a good idea to compile in this thread to
> state what the
> >> | last Thinkpad to have a certain feature.
> >>
> >> At IETF last month, Linus Nordberg (of TOR) was using an x60
> with coreboot
> >> firmware replacement to decrease the chance that his system has been
> >> compromised (by firmware or motherboard producer).
> >>      <http://www.coreboot.org/Board:lenovo/x60/Installation>
> >> (He also makes hardware mods, like removing the radios and some
> >> ports.)
> > The T60 and T60p are supported by coreboot as well.
> >
> > Some of the later Intel-based Thinkpad models (x200,x201,x230) have
> > coreboot support, but they have an auxiliary processor (called
> > Management Engine, ME) with remote management capability which can't be
> > disabled and that ME runs unknown closed-source code even if coreboot is
> > installed.
> >
> > So if you're paranoid, the only Intel-based Thinkpad you can trust is a
> > T60/T60p/x60. AMD does not have a ME, but AFAIK no coreboot support for
> > an AMD-based Thinkpad exists.
> >
> >
> >> At first he thought that he could do the same thing with my x61t but
> >> then he decided it was more hairy.
> >>
> >> My x61t has vPRO, whatever that actually means.
> > The *61 series has a chipset not supported by coreboot, so although you
> > might be able to mod the hardware against some attacks, the firmware is
> > not trustable.
> >
> >> So: maybe the x60 generation is the last safe-ish one.
> > Yes. For now, at least.
>Thanks for bringing this up. I just made an article
>(http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Old_ThinkPad_Niches) in case Wiki users
>are looking for this information.


Thanks for the effort.
May i make a suggestion?

"While new ThinkPads are generally most desirable for performance
reasons, there is still some demand for features that can only be
found in older models. Either for nostalgia or productivity, the
following are some considerations for those wishing to buy an old ThinkPad. "

nostalgia?

Sounds  like we are flat earthers when we just have practical reasons
for wanting a 4:3 screen for instance.

Maybe delete nostalgia or change it for usability?

Martin

Desktop:Windows XP Pro 32bit- v9.1 Outpost Pro lifetime license, MBaE ,
HitmanPro scheduled daily scan, HitmanPro.alert v2.5 AppGuard v4 (as
of August 2014)  

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Re: The last Thinkpad to have

Martin N-2
In reply to this post by Richard Neill-4
Hello,

At 23:54 01/09/2014, you wrote:

>On 01.09.2014 23:27, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>>Thanks for bringing this up. I just made an article
>>>(http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Old_ThinkPad_Niches) in case Wiki users
>>>are looking for this information.
>>Thanks.  I'd also be interested in "the last 16:10" thinkpads (since it
>>seems all new ones have moved to 16:9).
>
>This is indeed a useful resource. Another question would be "last
>thinkpad to have a trackpoint with real buttons"
>(as opposed to the clickpad in the X1 carbon Gen2).

i didnt realise they had dropped real buttons.

Spend too much time on desktops to notice i guess :)

Martin N

Owner of the bwfc yahoogroup and Co-Moderator of  MiniDisc and
amithlonopen yahoo groups.

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Re: The last Thinkpad to have

Paul Sladen
In reply to this post by Connor Behan
On Mon, 1 Sep 2014, Connor Behan wrote:
> http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Old_ThinkPad_Niches

Last ThinkPad to have a round 20V power connector.

        -Paul

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Re: The last Thinkpad to have

Joerg Bruehe-2
In reply to this post by Martin N-2
Hi!


On 02.09.2014 03:12, Martin N wrote:

> Hello,
>
> At 23:54 01/09/2014, you wrote:
>> On 01.09.2014 23:27, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>>> Thanks for bringing this up. I just made an article
>>>> (http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Old_ThinkPad_Niches) in case Wiki users
>>>> are looking for this information.
>>> Thanks.  I'd also be interested in "the last 16:10" thinkpads (since it
>>> seems all new ones have moved to 16:9).
>>
>> This is indeed a useful resource. Another question would be "last
>> thinkpad to have a trackpoint with real buttons"
>> (as opposed to the clickpad in the X1 carbon Gen2).
>
> i didnt realise they had dropped real buttons.

Lenovo has dropped them.
The last one having them seems to be the T530.

I do not remember having seen any model in the generation 4 with mouse
buttons (either above or below the touchpad), definitely none with a 14
or 15 inch screen at FHD resolution (1920 * 1080).

The T530 was still available at some shops in mid-August, but not at
others, I don't know the reasons behind that (large pile in stock?).
And it does have the wide screen, 16:9, there seems to be no chance to
avoid that. It is non-glossy.


Regards,
Jörg

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Joerg Bruehe  - persoenliche Aeusserung / speaking only for himself
mailto:[hidden email]

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Re: The last Thinkpad to have

Uwe Brauer-2
In reply to this post by Connor Behan

   > On 17/08/14 06:01 AM, Carl-Daniel wrote:
   > Thanks for bringing this up. I just made an article
   > (http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Old_ThinkPad_Niches) in case Wiki users
   > are looking for this information.


Thanks, but could you explain what you mean by



    -   A non-chiclet keyboard?


    -  A non-mussed physical key layout?

(X201s.)

I posses a X201s so I have never experienced a mussed key layout, do
you mean less keys?

BTW lenovo latest ideas seem to me a disaster and I might be forced to
use second hand equipments. :'(

Uwe Brauer

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