TP Yoga - touchpad psmouse lost sync, buttons hanging / freeze

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TP Yoga - touchpad psmouse lost sync, buttons hanging / freeze

Nicole Faerber
Hi!
Yesterday I received my shiny new Thinkpad Yoga. Most stuff works right
out of the box (I did install Debian testing) but I have a severe issue
with the touchpad, especially the buttons, that are now part of the
touchpad (a big drawback of the Yoga and some other new Thinkpad models).

Everything works fine until I press one of those buttons. After that the
psmouse driver reports lost sync and the mouse pointer either goes
haywire or it gets stuck and most of the time recovers after some seconds.

Since I only played around briefly with the installed Win8 (I have no
interest in Win8) I can not 100% sure tell if it worked there. But I had
the impression that Windows showed the same issues - each time I clicked
a "mouse" button, the pointer disappeared and only the touchscreen
worked for a moment.

This seems pretty strange to me. It feels like a hardware defect but on
the other hand the buttons are part of touchpad and the touchpad works
as far as moving the mouse pointer is concerned.

Here is what the kernel (I am running 3.15.5 now) sais about that:

[    2.102001] psmouse serio1: synaptics: Touchpad model: 1, fw: 8.1,
id: 0x1e2b1, caps: 0xd001a3/0x940300/0x127c00, board id: 2911, fw id:
1514409
[    2.102009] psmouse serio1: synaptics: serio: Synaptics pass-through
port at isa0060/serio1/input0
[    6.601021] psmouse serio2: alps: Unknown ALPS touchpad: E7=10 00 64,
EC=10 00 64
[    8.502683] psmouse serio2: trackpoint: IBM TrackPoint firmware:
0x0e, buttons: 3/3
[   29.798333] psmouse serio1: TouchPad at isa0060/serio1/input0 lost
sync at byte 1
[   29.799455] psmouse serio1: TouchPad at isa0060/serio1/input0 lost
sync at byte 1
[   29.800550] psmouse serio1: TouchPad at isa0060/serio1/input0 lost
sync at byte 1
[   29.801631] psmouse serio1: TouchPad at isa0060/serio1/input0 lost
sync at byte 1
[   29.802739] psmouse serio1: TouchPad at isa0060/serio1/input0 lost
sync at byte 1
[   29.802744] psmouse serio1: issuing reconnect request

Is this simply a (yet) unsupported touchpad version? The "Unknown ALPS
touchpad: E7=10 00 64, EC=10 00 64" suggests this. Or is this device
really broken, i.e. broken hardware?

BTW: Since I read in some forum posts that some people have similar
issues (other laptops) when UEFI is still active I tried to switch to
"legacy only" but same behavior. I also booted the Windows recovery from
USB stick since it also has GUI and mouse pointer already and at least
the recovery version also goes haywire when one of the buttons is pressed.

I also tried various parameters to the "psmouse" kernel module but
nothing helped.


Apart from this issue the machine is superb and I would really be pretty
p*ssed if would have to return it - which would surely mean several
weeks being without it. So if someone has an idea how to fix this I
would be very very grateful!

Many thanks!

Cheers
  nicole

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Re: TP Yoga - touchpad psmouse lost sync, buttons hanging / freeze

Nicole Faerber
Hi!
Since I reported this issue I thought I should also post the "solution":
The hardware was bad.

After trying around stuff not only the touchpad behaved awkward but also
the trackpoint started to get mad at me for touching it. And finally
also the keyboard did mysterious things upon my gentle strokes :)

The solution turned out to be a hardware fault. I called the Lenovo
service because I have a next day on site contract. After a week they
came and changed the mainboard (next day on-site | after a week - get
it?). While opening the case the fault became obvious. The securing
lever of the FFC connector of the keyboard / touchpad / trackpoint unit
was simply missing. If you know FFC connectors then this tells you that
this connectors will only have proper contact by accident. After
changing the mainboard all came back to normal, including the touchpad.

So I have a well behaving machine now, great!

The downside of this is that the technician that did all of that turned
my just two weeks old machine into a state that I wouldn't even accept
when buying a used machine. The screws are now visibly used and worn
out. While changing the display, because it had the ghosting problem, he
scratched the lid. The cover stickers on the screws are crumbled and
hardly sticking anymore etc. Worst of all, all FFC connectors the guy
had to disconnect (almost all that are in the machine) usually have a
securing adhesive tape glued over the connector and the cable's end. He
peeled them off but did not apply new tapes. And since he peeled them
off with bare hands they do not stick anymore. Why are those there in
the first place if he does not care to replace them?

In the end after reassembling everything the case now has several spots
where it shows gaps between the parts. The palmrest now produces a nasty
click-click-eek noise when moving the hand while typing. And the changed
display was so improperly replaced that it shows clear signs of
mechanical stress, i.e. a spot with wrong colors in the upper right corner.

Is it normal that Lenovo service people do not use ESD protection? I was
really amazed that the guy not even bothered to ground himself nor the
workspace while handling ESD sensitive parts.


I should have requested an exchange of the machine instead of an on-site
repair :( Now I have to waste my time describing all the faults to the
service and wait for another brutal machine slaughter - presumably
finding my precious machine in a worse state after the next "service".
Great service, this is.


If someone from Lenovo is reading this: PLEASE take EXTRA care to
instruct, teach and train your service people properly! The kind of
service I experienced here is completely unacceptable. The guy was
friendly but was clearly unable to cope with the task. If I would not
have sat down with him three and a half hours correcting him with
several mistakes he made I would have an only half working machine now.

Cheers
  nicole



Am 12.07.2014 13:58, schrieb Nicole Faerber:

> Hi!
> Yesterday I received my shiny new Thinkpad Yoga. Most stuff works right
> out of the box (I did install Debian testing) but I have a severe issue
> with the touchpad, especially the buttons, that are now part of the
> touchpad (a big drawback of the Yoga and some other new Thinkpad models).
>
> Everything works fine until I press one of those buttons. After that the
> psmouse driver reports lost sync and the mouse pointer either goes
> haywire or it gets stuck and most of the time recovers after some seconds.
>
> Since I only played around briefly with the installed Win8 (I have no
> interest in Win8) I can not 100% sure tell if it worked there. But I had
> the impression that Windows showed the same issues - each time I clicked
> a "mouse" button, the pointer disappeared and only the touchscreen
> worked for a moment.
>
> This seems pretty strange to me. It feels like a hardware defect but on
> the other hand the buttons are part of touchpad and the touchpad works
> as far as moving the mouse pointer is concerned.
>
> Here is what the kernel (I am running 3.15.5 now) sais about that:
>
> [    2.102001] psmouse serio1: synaptics: Touchpad model: 1, fw: 8.1,
> id: 0x1e2b1, caps: 0xd001a3/0x940300/0x127c00, board id: 2911, fw id:
> 1514409
> [    2.102009] psmouse serio1: synaptics: serio: Synaptics pass-through
> port at isa0060/serio1/input0
> [    6.601021] psmouse serio2: alps: Unknown ALPS touchpad: E7=10 00 64,
> EC=10 00 64
> [    8.502683] psmouse serio2: trackpoint: IBM TrackPoint firmware:
> 0x0e, buttons: 3/3
> [   29.798333] psmouse serio1: TouchPad at isa0060/serio1/input0 lost
> sync at byte 1
> [   29.799455] psmouse serio1: TouchPad at isa0060/serio1/input0 lost
> sync at byte 1
> [   29.800550] psmouse serio1: TouchPad at isa0060/serio1/input0 lost
> sync at byte 1
> [   29.801631] psmouse serio1: TouchPad at isa0060/serio1/input0 lost
> sync at byte 1
> [   29.802739] psmouse serio1: TouchPad at isa0060/serio1/input0 lost
> sync at byte 1
> [   29.802744] psmouse serio1: issuing reconnect request
>
> Is this simply a (yet) unsupported touchpad version? The "Unknown ALPS
> touchpad: E7=10 00 64, EC=10 00 64" suggests this. Or is this device
> really broken, i.e. broken hardware?
>
> BTW: Since I read in some forum posts that some people have similar
> issues (other laptops) when UEFI is still active I tried to switch to
> "legacy only" but same behavior. I also booted the Windows recovery from
> USB stick since it also has GUI and mouse pointer already and at least
> the recovery version also goes haywire when one of the buttons is pressed.
>
> I also tried various parameters to the "psmouse" kernel module but
> nothing helped.
>
>
> Apart from this issue the machine is superb and I would really be pretty
> p*ssed if would have to return it - which would surely mean several
> weeks being without it. So if someone has an idea how to fix this I
> would be very very grateful!
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Cheers
>   nicole
>



--
kernel concepts GmbH       Tel: +49-271-771091-12
Sieghuetter Hauptweg 48
D-57072 Siegen
http://www.kernelconcepts.de/
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Re: TP Yoga - touchpad psmouse lost sync, buttons hanging / freeze

Martin N-2
Lo,

At 16:45 31/07/2014, you wrote:
>Hi!
>Since I reported this issue I thought I should also post the "solution":
>The hardware was bad.

snip


>Is it normal that Lenovo service people do not use ESD protection? I was
>really amazed that the guy not even bothered to ground himself nor the
>workspace while handling ESD sensitive parts.

Having worked in a couple of PC workshops it is normal for no ESD
wrist strap to be used.
I have seen an ESD mat used however in one shop but it was not
mentioned in training.

Dont know about Lenovo but ESD protection seems to be done mainly in
classes rather than
in the real world.

Martin

Running MorphOS v3.1 (July 2012) on a PowerPC Powerbook, Moderator of
MiniDisc,amithlonopen,bwfc Yahoogroups


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Re: TP Yoga - touchpad psmouse lost sync, buttons hanging / freeze

Nicole Faerber
Am 03.08.2014 23:53, schrieb Martin N:
> Lo,
Hi!

> At 16:45 31/07/2014, you wrote:
>> Is it normal that Lenovo service people do not use ESD protection? I was
>> really amazed that the guy not even bothered to ground himself nor the
>> workspace while handling ESD sensitive parts.
>
> Having worked in a couple of PC workshops it is normal for no ESD wrist
> strap to be used.
> I have seen an ESD mat used however in one shop but it was not mentioned
> in training.
>
> Dont know about Lenovo but ESD protection seems to be done mainly in
> classes rather than
> in the real world.

;)
Sure, but just because nobody does it does not make it right either?

I am working professionally in the electronics business for more than a
decade now and every company I now that either makes devices or does
service has pretty strict ESD protection rules. Well, this is not PC
industry, it is rather embedded devices. But I would count a notebook as
an embedded these days. And once you have seend ESD damage to silicon
you know that this is the least you want to do to ensure lowest possible
failure rates. The issue is less the immediate defect. This can be found
and fixed pretty reasily. The more severe problem are the mid and long
term faults. The chip's silicon can be damaged in a way that that
develop into measurable failures over time. But then it will be hard to
trakc them down to the ESD damage again.

Handling an assembled and soldered PCB like a main board or graphics
card will in most cases be OK and there are usually enough capacitors on
them to buffer the discharge and bring it quickly down to voltages that
will not cause damages by disruptive discharge. But such capacitors
and/or protective diodes and resistors cause higher power consumption so
the more low power it gets the more delicate the devices get to handle -
e.g. I would not touch a DDR3 RAM module with bare hands without
properly grounding myself before.

Doing ESD properly is not a great deal. It almost does not cost any
extra money and is usually no big deal to execute. It is more a matter
of will and not resources.


Oh well, the service company is working on it and I expect this to be
fixed this week. Let's hope that the next service guy is better trained
and more careful.

> Martin
Cheers
  nicole

--
kernel concepts GmbH       Tel: +49-271-771091-12
Sieghuetter Hauptweg 48
D-57072 Siegen
http://www.kernelconcepts.de/
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Re: TP Yoga - touchpad psmouse lost sync, buttons hanging / freeze

Martin N-2
Lo,

At 09:31 04/08/2014, you wrote:

>Am 03.08.2014 23:53, schrieb Martin N:
> > Lo,
>Hi!
>
> > At 16:45 31/07/2014, you wrote:
> >> Is it normal that Lenovo service people do not use ESD protection? I was
> >> really amazed that the guy not even bothered to ground himself nor the
> >> workspace while handling ESD sensitive parts.
> >
> > Having worked in a couple of PC workshops it is normal for no ESD wrist
> > strap to be used.
> > I have seen an ESD mat used however in one shop but it was not mentioned
> > in training.
> >
> > Dont know about Lenovo but ESD protection seems to be done mainly in
> > classes rather than
> > in the real world.
>
>;)
>Sure, but just because nobody does it does not make it right either?

No it doesnt but time is money etc.
The margins of a pc repair shop are thin still the visiting engineer should
of done better.

>I am working professionally in the electronics business for more than a
>decade now and every company I now that either makes devices or does
>service has pretty strict ESD protection rules. Well, this is not PC
>industry, it is rather embedded devices. But I would count a notebook as
>an embedded these days. And once you have seend ESD damage to silicon
>you know that this is the least you want to do to ensure lowest possible
>failure rates. The issue is less the immediate defect. This can be found
>and fixed pretty reasily. The more severe problem are the mid and long
>term faults. The chip's silicon can be damaged in a way that that
>develop into measurable failures over time. But then it will be hard to
>trakc them down to the ESD damage again.

The engineers probably have a target time for how long they can stay
at a customer so corners are cut.

It fails again as you have mentioned.
Well its more hours for the engineers :)


>Oh well, the service company is working on it and I expect this to be
>fixed this week. Let's hope that the next service guy is better trained
>and more careful.

Yes you could suggest it :)

Tell us if he is any better.

Martin

New NSA Slogan:
"We work to ensure your safety.
Don't Worry We Have Your Back[door] "

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